Help coping with wife!

[Pam]

Thanks driver, firefox and all for the follow-up! Let me give you some history before updating the status, it may help to clarify some things...I will try to explain it from her perspective I will say Pam is a girl that semi-xdress at times, enjoys wearing female clothing, but not all at the same time. Passing as a woman is not of a high turn on. It is just wearing some items of clothing that really make her day! She has always been attracted to several clothing like heels, skirts, stockings, etc since very young. She had a girlfriend for a long period of time - 6 years, let's call her V, that was a catalyzer of her dressing. This person was very important in her life, one of the most loved ones. During this time she had time to experience all kinds of female clothing and items. Dressing was a big part of their sexual life. But also the most important part of this stage was the discovery that full dressing was fun, but not necessary to be 100% fulfilled. After this girlfriend, V, dressing up ended. It was not until after she left home for her masters that the idea of dressing up came back. During school, she lived with C for almost a year. This was a bad relationship, but C suggested wearing makeup and heels a couple of times for fun. This happened twice, but the relationship was sooo bad, that even dressing was not fun anymore. Two years passed by and Pam was living in NYC! New job, new life. The desire of dressing was there, but passive...she had no clothes, and her life was pretty much in pause. At that time she met G, who was living in another country and had been her biggest crush ever. But she also met S, a lovely girl in NY. It turn that Pam and S began a very nice relationship, and this is where S was very encouraging of role playing. This is when she bought knee-highs, pumps, and the cutest 5-inch sandals! S was the one to create Pam, she was very encouraging of her dressing, and she even took her for her first outing in heels! However, on trips back home...G was present. Event though Pam never cheated,, her mind and heart was with G. Following her heart, Pam broke up with S and went with G. Long story short Pam and G got married. Pam was very fond of looking for people like her on the web. One day G found her history of "websites" and that is when this thread started! Here is the update ... We had many long conversations with the logic line of questioning about my sexual preference, etc. It took me a long time to understand things from HER perspective, plus all the other burden she was going through at the same time. Newly wed, moving to another country, jobless, away from her family, etc. G needed TIME to digest all things and understand how everything fitted together, not only the heels! During this time, Pam and I needed to reevaluate and think also, again not only the heels, but all of our new life. So now G know about me liking to wear female clothes. She is not happy, but she knows.... and this not being a secret is half of the battle. Things are slowly progressing, during winter I have been wearing tights and she even bought me some women's tops to wear under my shirts. She know that I have a pair of 4 inch stiletto boots, she knows that I own many pairs of sexy underwear...but she is getting used to it, at her own pace. I really want this marriage to work so I am committed to make it work, but based on honesty! Pam comes and goes, she is there...and always be and I am sure one day G will get to know her. G is still with me!!! Firefox is very right when he said that Pam is a she, and it does not reflect the idea of a guy wearing heels. The main reason why G does not know Pam is that Pam was created as part of another relationship. This can create problems....Pam is slowly being "re-created" by G. Sorry for the long reply!!!! and again thanks for listening...this forum has played a very important part lately in my life! Pam

[Bubba136]

Very interesting! However, Pam's relationship with G was built on a false foundation. The entire truth wasn't known at the time G made the commitment to Pam. So far, Pam has been very lucky and, perhaps, his luck will continue. But, in my opinion, he should have been up front with G and told her about his desire to wear womens clothes as soon as he realized they were going to be more than "bf & gf." That way G would have been able to evaluate her feelings about Pam's behavior, make her decision on wheather or not to continue being involved with Pam or to walk away because she can't handle the revelation. That could possibly save her from reacting to a huge shock when you revealed your true self to her. After all, you aren't really the "man" she thought she married.

[Pam]

Now that the cat is out of the bag I feel that G and I have an honest relationship where there are no secrets. She knows of "Pam" and thats what matters...there are no more hidden surprises. In our initial conversations I told her all about my feelings towards female clothing. No secrets, full honesty. Right now we are much enjoying our marriage since this has united us stronger. For me that is the most important outcome. As for me, I am working towards strengthen my relationship with her...surprise dinners for 2, making sure the housework is done by both of us, etc...I am working on little details (outside my dressing) to make sure we have a happy marriage. The only difference is that now she knows of Pam and my feelings, and that was a missing piece that is now in the equation

[Heelfan]

Pam - I'm delighted that you seem to be building on the relationship so well now! My very best wishes to you both for a happy (and fulfilled) future, and good luck! Cheerfully yours, Heelfan

[sscotty727]

My wife and I had a long talk about me wearing heels in public as she still isn't 100% behind me wearing them. What we decided is the following: For work I will wear no higher than 2" block heels. I do have some inserts that make them feel like higher, but I will not wear anything higher than that. For the weekend or if we go out during the week, I will wear my 3" boots, but only with jeans long enough to hide the heel (I wore my boots this weekend when we went out for valentines day and my jeans weren't that long and she was uncomfortable the entire time). When we are alone OR when I am alone (like now in the hotel room on travel) I am free to wear my stelletos or other "femine" heels. I soon will be working closer to home where I will be home nightly, so she also promised to make sure I had "alone time" either with her or by myself where I can get my "fix" for wearing heels. Anyway, I felt this was fair and she agreed to it. I hope this might help others reach some compromise with their significant others as well. Scotty

[Jamie001]

This does not seem very fair to me!! Why do you have to hide your heels under long jeans? If you have to hide your heels, what is the purpose of wearint them?

Regards,

Jamie :-)

My wife and I had a long talk about me wearing heels in public as she still isn't 100% behind me wearing them. What we decided is the following:

For work I will wear no higher than 2" block heels. I do have some inserts that make them feel like higher, but I will not wear anything higher than that.

For the weekend or if we go out during the week, I will wear my 3" boots, but only with jeans long enough to hide the heel (I wore my boots this weekend when we went out for valentines day and my jeans weren't that long and she was uncomfortable the entire time).

When we are alone OR when I am alone (like now in the hotel room on travel) I am free to wear my stelletos or other "femine" heels. I soon will be working closer to home where I will be home nightly, so she also promised to make sure I had "alone time" either with her or by myself where I can get my "fix" for wearing heels.

Anyway, I felt this was fair and she agreed to it. I hope this might help others reach some compromise with their significant others as well.

Scotty

[verngentleheels]

The question is whether you are wearing your heels to shock or for your personal pleasure. I for one am not into the "get in your face" approach to wearing heels. They give me pleasure and that is primary. I wear them with long pants, as do most women who wear pants with heels. If I were into shock I'd wear the most outrageous heels with the sortest of skirts (with my hairy legs no less!) but that is not my scene. So if you say I'm covering my heels, so be it. (But look when I'm sitting down, my pants rise up and the heels are revealed in all their glory!) Vern

[sscotty727]

Vern, I agree with you. I wear heels because I like how they feel when I walk, not for people to see them. Right now, it makes my wife uncomfortable with me being seen in heels in public. I have to respect that because I love her and I care about her opinion and feelings. The compromise is that I can wear the heels (for me) as long as I wear long pants so they are not obvious (for her). Someday that might change, it might not, however like you said, the heels are for me not for showing everyone that I am wearing them, so the compromise works just fine. The more important thing in all this isn't the fact that I have to "hide" my heels in public, but rather my wife and I love each other and are sensitive to each others feelings to work out a compromise. Scotty

[shyguy]

My wife and I also just had a big discussion re: me and heels. She knows about it, and tries to block it from her mind. She tolerates it, but won't condone it. Won't allow me to buy some stilettos, but will let me wear "some of her shoes ". Only around the house, not outside, although she did consider allowing me out in the low heel loafers I showed in another thread but backed up a little when my eyes lit up , not great, but we can discuss it now a bit more openly. I don't know If I really acheived much, but this came about after 2 days of me wearing her low heeled shoes around the house while off work. She called me a transvestite, and although I wear shoes made for women, I don't accept this term for myself (no offence to any of you who do accept that tag, I appreciate everyones taste is different, but that's just not mine) so we had the big debate on shoes again, and what it means to both of us (ie I don't want to be female, or dress as a woman, nor am I gay. She wants a manly man and not someone in womens stuff as it makes her feel less feminine). So we both know the lay of the land now, and have made concessions again, although I believe I may be slowly gaining more than I lose And I get to keep the sandals she gave me (read "was about to chuck out")

[bladerunner]

Well shyguy you are doing better than myself,i think my wife also believes it makes her less feminine.I have tried explaining so many times but she just can't see it.Maybe i'm just not getting my point across,or she just won't as she can be very stubborn.Apart from that i love her to bits,but it does cause a strain on things.Hope things keep improving for you.I've been tempted to tell her about this site but i'm not sure.She'd probably freak out knowing i've chatted to and met a few of you guys!!!!Still i don't think i'll ever change,just as she cannot

[genebujold]

This does not seem very fair to me!! Why do you have to hide your heels under long jeans? If you have to hide your heels, what is the purpose of wearint them?

Regards,

Jamie :-)

I, for one (and probably rare on this board) began wearing them because I blew out my ankle in the mid-90's (severely sprained with joint injury trauma). Ever since, walking has been moderately painful, in the early 2000's, was getting a bit more that I liked to bear.

I saw a doctor, and after working with the PTs (physical therapists) for a while, we discovered it didn't hurt at all while walking on my toes (heels about 2" or more). They suggested I try a pair of elevator heel men's shoes.

Cost: close to $200. Since I'm self-insured, I said "ridiculous!"

It didn't take long for me to figure out I could at least try out the concept by getting a pair of cheapies at Payless.

It worked, but I only wore them at home, at first, ashamed to wear them in public, and having no desire to wear women's shoes in the first place.

Over time, I began to enjoy wearing them, primarily for their comfort (I wear between 2" and 4" only).

Only recently, however (last year, to year and a half) did I become interested in the appeal of their style. It began shortly after I began wearing very conservative heels in public and realized I'd been "coordinating" my clothing and heels to be as non-descript as possible while still appealing to the styles found here in Vegas (bad styles stand out like a sore thumb; good style blends into the surrounding decor).

It was at that point began to enjoy wearing heels for their looks, in addition to their comfort.

I'm still a very conservative dresser, however. Although the heel in my avatar is showing, I wear it with my pants (usually black jeans or slacks) nearly to the floor in the back.

Yes - I like wearing heels, and for two good reasons.

No, I don't flaunt it.

***

As an aside, I believe if more heel-wearing men took this approach, more girlfriends/wives/SOs of heel-wearing men would be more accepting of their wearing heels!

Let's face it - few people are really willing to be seen with someone who goes so far against the grain of what's commonly considered "normal" that they stand out like a sore thumb.

It's a shame issue, something to which women seem fairly sensitive.

It only makes sense that if you care about them, you will make efforts to accomodate their concerns as you indulge.

That's basic love - nothing more, nothing less.

The idea that everything should revolve around you and mold to your world no matter how radical or extreme is sheer narcism, which is fairly anti-social at its best, and self/other-destructive at its worst.

All of this is, after all, in direct response to the original post on this thread.

On the other hand, if you've found someone who has no issues with your choice of style, location, wear, color, etc., and loves being with you anyway, then there's really no problem!

[genebujold]

I don't know If I really acheived much, but this came about after 2 days of me wearing her low heeled shoes around the house while off work. She called me a transvestite, and although I wear shoes made for women, I don't accept this term for myself (no offence to any of you who do accept that tag, I appreciate everyones taste is different, but that's just not mine) so we had the big debate on shoes again, and what it means to both of us (ie I don't want to be female, or dress as a woman, nor am I gay. She wants a manly man and not someone in womens stuff as it makes her feel less feminine).

First, I'm glad to see you're working with her, being sensitive to her needs, wants, and desires, instead of merely trying to convert her to your point of view! That will go a long way towards your relationship, which in my mind is more important than your heel wear (heels are available everywhere for nearly every size - good women are quite rare).

Well, believe it or not, it really doesn't matter why you wear heels. Although I'm a staunch supportor of the ideal that it shouldn't matter what one wears, I do accept the fact that the term "transvestite" refers to someone who wears clothing normally worn and socially accepted only by the opposite sex. A man wearing a bra falls into this category.

The problem is, there are loopholes. What about the intersexed? Men with XXY genes (as does a friend of mine from church) usually grow a small pair of breasts. Some of them wear bras. Is that abnormal? Is that "cross-dressing" or "transvestism?"

I don't think so! After all, that's what a bra is for. Some conservatives say they should get surgury to "correct" the problem. Well, if they're XXY by birth, it's easily argued that's the way God made them, so why shouldn't they provide the same support for their breasts as women enjoy for theirs? Why should they be forced to let 'em droop to their bellies?

The case for wearing heels is a bit more difficult, but I believe it's manageable.

First, if enough men do it, it's no longer "cross-dressing" or "transvestism," it's simply a fashion choice. Most men don't wear black leather low-heeled boots. Some do, and it's socially acceptable. When our numbers grow from "exceedingly few" to "some," the general populace will no longer call us CD/TVs, but merely "different."

As it is right now, we're on the verge of that kind of acceptance. I go out regularly (about twice a week) here in Vegas wearing the heels you see to the left. Even though I conservatively conceal them beneath a longer than normal pair of pants, I know for a fact, most of the casino workers in the places I regularly frequent have spotted, and dismissed them. They're fashionable. I'm otherwise conservatively dressed. I behave well, and don't disrupt the activity of other customers. And that's really all the casinos care about.

I've seen very few other male high-heels wearers here in Vegas, but the numbers do seem to be growing over the last two years.

If we're going to win the war against the prevailing public attitudes, it will have to be through the subtle, gentle pressure, persuasion, of conservative numbers. They'll simply shrug and say, in this century, guys wear heels.

If we go about it outrageously, it will backfire. Always has, always does. Non-acceptance of non-comformity is simply an ingrained characteristic of the animal kingdom. If you're different enough than others, you become an outcast.

Swell the numbers gently, however, and we'll be in.

[Jamie001]

Guys,

You are forgetting one important fact. Women wear every article of clothing that a man wear, including the most masculine article, "the necktie". When women want to wear something, they just do it. Women started wearing pants 50 years ago with an in your face attitude and that is how they obtained their fashion freedom. If you go about it slowly and conservatively, men will still not be wearing heels 100 years from now. With all due respect, This is not the answer.

Jamie :-)

First, I'm glad to see you're working with her, being sensitive to her needs, wants, and desires, instead of merely trying to convert her to your point of view! That will go a long way towards your relationship, which in my mind is more important than your heel wear (heels are available everywhere for nearly every size - good women are quite rare).

Well, believe it or not, it really doesn't matter why you wear heels. Although I'm a staunch supportor of the ideal that it shouldn't matter what one wears, I do accept the fact that the term "transvestite" refers to someone who wears clothing normally worn and socially accepted only by the opposite sex. A man wearing a bra falls into this category.

The problem is, there are loopholes. What about the intersexed? Men with XXY genes (as does a friend of mine from church) usually grow a small pair of breasts. Some of them wear bras. Is that abnormal? Is that "cross-dressing" or "transvestism?"

I don't think so! After all, that's what a bra is for. Some conservatives say they should get surgury to "correct" the problem. Well, if they're XXY by birth, it's easily argued that's the way God made them, so why shouldn't they provide the same support for their breasts as women enjoy for theirs? Why should they be forced to let 'em droop to their bellies?

The case for wearing heels is a bit more difficult, but I believe it's manageable.

First, if enough men do it, it's no longer "cross-dressing" or "transvestism," it's simply a fashion choice. Most men don't wear black leather low-heeled boots. Some do, and it's socially acceptable. When our numbers grow from "exceedingly few" to "some," the general populace will no longer call us CD/TVs, but merely "different."

As it is right now, we're on the verge of that kind of acceptance. I go out regularly (about twice a week) here in Vegas wearing the heels you see to the left. Even though I conservatively conceal them beneath a longer than normal pair of pants, I know for a fact, most of the casino workers in the places I regularly frequent have spotted, and dismissed them. They're fashionable. I'm otherwise conservatively dressed. I behave well, and don't disrupt the activity of other customers. And that's really all the casinos care about.

I've seen very few other male high-heels wearers here in Vegas, but the numbers do seem to be growing over the last two years.

If we're going to win the war against the prevailing public attitudes, it will have to be through the subtle, gentle pressure, persuasion, of conservative numbers. They'll simply shrug and say, in this century, guys wear heels.

If we go about it outrageously, it will backfire. Always has, always does. Non-acceptance of non-comformity is simply an ingrained characteristic of the animal kingdom. If you're different enough than others, you become an outcast.

Swell the numbers gently, however, and we'll be in.

[new_look]

i agree. theres just not enough about of us with the slow want to wear heels, itd help society to have in in their face from more of us, and some celebs to see that it isnt so bad as when you describe it

[shyguy]

Bladerunner said ::

I've been tempted to tell her about this site but i'm not sure.She'd probably freak out knowing i've chatted to and met a few of you guys!!!!

I plucked up the courage and showed my wife the HH forum, and some of the tamer posts, particularly these about wives/so's acceptance.

She looked a little while, then walked away, but it shows her she isn't alone with a man who likes heels. Don't think she'll be back to look again though but at least she knows I am here, and I don't close this window when she comes into the room anymore.

[genebujold]

Guys,

You are forgetting one important fact. Women wear every article of clothing that a man wear, including the most masculine article, "the necktie". When women want to wear something, they just do it. Women started wearing pants 50 years ago with an in your face attitude and that is how they obtained their fashion freedom. If you go about it slowly and conservatively, men will still not be wearing heels 100 years from now. With all due respect, This is not the answer.

Jamie :-)

Hi, Jamie.

I believe it's you who are forgetting, and that would be WWII, during which many women took over their husband's jobs, and often their husband's coveralls, while their husbands were off to war. The necessity of military uniforms precluded making new ones for the women staying behind in the factories.

Although the concept of women wearing pants was introduced in the late 20's, it never caught on, either with women, or men.

Why? Because it was an "in-your-face" mentality, primarily from certain corners of Hollywood.

Result - it was rejected!

The "in-your-face" approach just didn't cut the mustard.

In fact, in the entire history of humankind, it never has, as the response to radical difference is actually wired into our genes (and those of wolves, bears, tigers, birds, fish....).

Rather, it was four years of familiarity with women wearing pants and coveralls during WWII that ushered in the era where women commonly began wearing clothing previously only worn by men.

And it took another 30 years before they dropped the traditional scarf for a necktie.

By the way, I've two women on my team. One wears business coordinates (skirt) and the other wears pants. Both wear medium heels (2-1/2 to 3"). Although both wear stylish blouses and jackets, I do not recall either of them wearing a tie, even though I'm always in a tie.

[Jamie001]

Gene,

I believe that men wearing heels need to use the same approach that was used by men wearing earrings. Ten years ago, there were not many men wearing earrings. More and more men started wearing earrings over time and now it is commonplace to see men wearing earrings in both ears. Men must do the same with regard to wearing high heels. Life to short to wear boring clothing to please other people. If you look around, you will see that women wear every article of clothing that men wear. (baseball caps. men's ties, men's shoes, men's shirts, and the list goes on and on...). My cousin works in a shoe store and many women purchase men's dress shoes or men's athletic shoes for themselves. There is no reason that men cannot do the same. The fear is in our own minds. We need to stop hiding our heels under long pant legs and proudly display our heels. We are not doing anything that is illegal and it soes not change who we are. We need to just put on our high heels and be proud and go about our normal business. For God sakes, they are just shoes!!! We also should not allow our wives to tell use that we cannot wear heels. After all, do we tell our wives not to wear masculine shoes or a baseball cap? IF we proceed very slowly, we will all be dead and gone by the time that it is acceptable to wear heels. I do not care to wait that long, do you?

Best Regards,

Jamie :-)

Fashion Freedom for Men!!

Hi, Jamie.

I believe it's you who are forgetting, and that would be WWII, during which many women took over their husband's jobs, and often their husband's coveralls, while their husbands were off to war. The necessity of military uniforms precluded making new ones for the women staying behind in the factories.

Although the concept of women wearing pants was introduced in the late 20's, it never caught on, either with women, or men.

Why? Because it was an "in-your-face" mentality, primarily from certain corners of Hollywood.

Result - it was rejected!

The "in-your-face" approach just didn't cut the mustard.

In fact, in the entire history of humankind, it never has, as the response to radical difference is actually wired into our genes (and those of wolves, bears, tigers, birds, fish....).

Rather, it was four years of familiarity with women wearing pants and coveralls during WWII that ushered in the era where women commonly began wearing clothing previously only worn by men.

And it took another 30 years before they dropped the traditional scarf for a necktie.

By the way, I've two women on my team. One wears business coordinates (skirt) and the other wears pants. Both wear medium heels (2-1/2 to 3"). Although both wear stylish blouses and jackets, I do not recall either of them wearing a tie, even though I'm always in a tie.

[sscotty727]

Gene,

We also should not allow our wives to tell use that we cannot wear heels. After all, do we tell our wives not to wear masculine shoes or a baseball cap? IF we proceed very slowly, we will all be dead and gone by the time that it is acceptable to wear heels. I do not care to wait that long, do you?

Best Regards,

Jamie :-)

Fashion Freedom for Men!!

That is a very selfish attitude. Of course what my wife says and is comfortable with plans into the equation! Do you think it shouldn't work into the equation of she wanted to dress like a slut??? When you get married you agree to become ONE person and work TOGETHER on EVERYTHING in life. No she doesn't dictate what I wear, nor do I "put her in her place", but rather we discuss and agree/compromise on issues, not just heel wearing but everything in our marriage. To do otherwise is not being commited to a marriage. For that you might as well stay single.

Scotty

[shyguy]

You need to respect your wife/SO's views, and they yours. If you're going to just ignore their reservations, or feelings you won't be together very long. I have been in a relationship where my partner didn't compromise, did what she wanted, but ruled my life, was a very sad relationship to be in looking backwards.

I wouldn't treat someone with that sort of disrespect, and wouldn't stay with someone who treated me that way again, it feels horrible and demeans a person.

To do otherwise is not being commited to a marriage. For that you might as well stay single.

Or you will become single again quickly.

[blackslide]

My wife and I have our own business and work out of an office above our garage. I can wear any shoes I like all day, and usually it is a pair of 3" or greater heels. My wife has all but quite wearing heels. We are quite a pair. She is 5' -2" and wears frumpy flat shoes, I am 6'-1" and wear 3" heels. She usually wears 1/2" heeled mules or her running shoes. We got into a small argument about me wearing heels and I said to her "Someone in this house should be wearing high heels". Her reply "I might start to wear high heels again when you stop wearing them." How do I respond to that? Gals, what is your take on this?

[ShockQueen]

Her reply "I might start to wear high heels again when you stop wearing them."

Well then, I guess you won't be wearing any for quite some time! LOL

I know I've said this before, but I'm very lucky to have found a lady who has been accepting of me wearing heels since day one, and hasn't stopped being supportive since. The only restrictions we have now are purely financial...just can't afford anymore right now. Then again, I have all I need for now anyways. I know the saying goes that you can't have too many heels....but even if you don't have a closet-ful, enjoy the ones you do have.

My wife has accepted the fact that my fashion is part of my life, and there is no changing that. We live a very open-minded relationship, and I plan on raising our kids with the same mindset. Gotta raise them in the "here and now" and not the "traditional" way - make some progress! I told my wife that my daughter is probably gonna grow up to be a tomboy and my son will probably be a drag queen. Guess we'll see if my prediction is true or not.....and no, I'm not gonna persuade them in any way either direction. What they choose is their own choice - as long as it's legal and doesn't hurt others.