Jump to content

6ihf & large sizes -time to initiate something!


hh&c fan

What do you think about the size differences (read text&attachments!)  

27 members have voted

  1. 1. What do you think about the size differences (read text&attachments!)

    • I like the small-size shape more, but I need larger sizes.
      19
    • I like the small-size shape more but I don't need larger sizes.
      5
    • I don't like the small-size shape.
      2
    • other (please write a post)
      1


Recommended Posts

Hey everybody! I assume most of you know 6ihf (orientvisual.com) and their great designs. However there's one problem with almost every 6ihf design - if you need a larger size, like lots of us, the heel height of 6ihf designs wont grow - result: it looks boring. Attached to this post are two comparisions showing the problem. I've asked 6ihf why they are doing this, but the only answer I got was that the heels needed to be thicker and that would look ugly. Now everyone knows that it is possible to manufacture high heels with 20cm+ heels that still look slender, sharp and beautiful! So at this point I decided that if I want this to change, there must be more than one person who tells 6ihf about this annoying thing. If you feel the same, send a mail to 6ihf, and tell them about it! Maybe they will see it will be positive for both them and us... And secondly, vote!

post-24957-133522954609_thumb.jpg

post-24957-133522954615_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Iam confused what are we comparing?

Take a look at the attached images. At each one you can see the same design in a small size (e.g. US7) and a large size (e.g. US13). As the heel height is the same for all sizes, larger sizes loose the appearance of extreme height - at least for me kinda disappointing as I wear US13/14 sizes.

Now what I want to hear from you is, if you feel the same, and if you "suffer" from it because you also need large sizes.

The goal is to try to convince 6ihf to consider a change of their shoe-size-to-heel-height system.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know about the rest of you but when I want a 6 inch heel, I want a 6 inch heel, not a heel that's scaled to shoe size. My hats off to 6ihf to using their existing system when many other manufacturers are scaling the heel height to te size.

Shafted, the boots that is! View my gallery here http://www.hhplace.o...afteds-gallery/ or view my heeling thread here http://www.hhplace.org/topic/3850-new-pair-of-boots-starts-me-serious-street-heeling/ - Pm me if you want fashion advice or just need someone to talk to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know about the rest of you but when I want a 6 inch heel, I want a 6 inch heel, not a heel that's scaled to shoe size. My hats off to 6ihf to using their existing system when many other manufacturers are scaling the heel height to te size.

Thats anyhow impossible as every manufacturer and shop measures the heel height at another position...

When I buy *any* product, I want it be shaped like the item I see on the photo!

Not scaling the heel height is like not scaling a boot shaft's height - for small sizes its an overknee shaft, for larger sizes something like a kneehigh shaft... :) :) that's not what I want.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thats anyhow impossible as every manufacturer and shop measures the heel height at another position...

When I buy *any* product, I want it be shaped like the item I see on the photo!

Not scaling the heel height is like not scaling a boot shaft's height - for small sizes its an overknee shaft, for larger sizes something like a kneehigh shaft... :) :) that's not what I want.

Then exactly what is the point of advertizing heel heights? What the industry needs is standardization not scaling. Good luck with your quest, but I just don't see 6ihf as becoming 7ihf or 5ihf. They are selling true 6 inch heels regardless of size. One would have thought their name would have been plain enough.

Shafted, the boots that is! View my gallery here http://www.hhplace.o...afteds-gallery/ or view my heeling thread here http://www.hhplace.org/topic/3850-new-pair-of-boots-starts-me-serious-street-heeling/ - Pm me if you want fashion advice or just need someone to talk to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then exactly what is the point of advertizing heel heights? What the industry needs is standardization not scaling. Good luck with your quest, but I just don't see 6ihf as becoming 7ihf or 5ihf. They are selling true 6 inch heels regardless of size. One would have thought their name would have been plain enough.

Don't ask me... however I think there are lots of people thinkin like me, so I wanted to test if I'm right, and maybe 6ihf will think about it if they see there's a certain interest.

Another thing: I think it would be way more useful if you measure the heel height relative to the shoe size. Y'know, all these comparisions like "whats the max heel height you can wear?" is absolutely useless - of course you can easily wear 6" heels if your shoe size is US15... but if you wear something very small, something like US5 maybe, 6" are the height of a ballet heel...

Oh, talkin 'bout ballet boots - would you also like to wear them with exactly the stated heel height? this would create some weird triangle silhouette...

okay I think we've got each others point, and even if we can't agree, its enough about that now. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm with Shafted. When I want a 6" heel I want a 6" heel. Not one sized to 7" to look similar to a smaller size because to be frank I can't walk in 7" heels. I can't even stand straight in them. Sure, my size 14US won't look as sexy but that's the price I pay for having such large feet. Some things are just not fair in life. I've got a pair of Ellie heels that are 7" instead of 6" because of the greater size and they are useless to me. Strangely enough Ellie heels only does this to their 6" heels shoes, their 5" heels stay 5" even at large sizes. I get your point though. You want that sexy extreme heel look and you just don't get it with these large sizes. I totally get that it would frustrate you. Maybe they should do both, standardized height and different heights per size. Personally my biggest problem is not height but width. Most shoes are to narrow forcing me to chose a size 14 when I'm truer to a size 12/13 but which leave that ugly gap in the back. I wish a store like 6ihf would have the option to select width as well. I know Archenemy used to have that option.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm with Shafted. When I want a 6" heel I want a 6" heel. Not one sized to 7" to look similar to a smaller size because to be frank I can't walk in 7" heels. I can't even stand straight in them. Sure, my size 14US won't look as sexy but that's the price I pay for having such large feet. Some things are just not fair in life. I've got a pair of Ellie heels that are 7" instead of 6" because of the greater size and they are useless to me. Strangely enough Ellie heels only does this to their 6" heels shoes, their 5" heels stay 5" even at large sizes.

I get your point though. You want that sexy extreme heel look and you just don't get it with these large sizes. I totally get that it would frustrate you. Maybe they should do both, standardized height and different heights per size.

Personally my biggest problem is not height but width. Most shoes are to narrow forcing me to chose a size 14 when I'm truer to a size 12/13 but which leave that ugly gap in the back. I wish a store like 6ihf would have the option to select width as well. I know Archenemy used to have that option.

Do you own 6ihf shoes? Due to the well known problem I can't speak from experience, but when I take a look at 6ihf designs, they seem to be wider and "better" shaped than other brands' heels.

@ Shedevil:

Indeed 6ihf also sells 7" heels, but they aren't shaped as sexy and curvy as the ones I showed in the first post. They are just high, like known from other manufacturers 7" heels.

The only thing I might try some time (but kinda expensive) is a about 8" model from 6ihf, which has a platform scaled to the chosen shoe size - so it will get smaller for large sizes. Still, that design is missing the sexiness of other designs smaller sizes...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just got a mail from 6ihf. This time they answered with something more plausible:

Lasts are created by machines. They are not handmade because volume accuracy is involved. Steep arches on large sizes cause the last to become stuck in the machine. If there is any risk of damaging the machine, the last manufacturer would refuse our request.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey everybody!

I assume most of you know 6ihf (orientvisual.com) and their great designs. However there's one problem with almost every 6ihf design - if you need a larger size, like lots of us, the heel height of 6ihf designs wont grow - result: it looks boring.

Attached to this post are two comparisions showing the problem.

I've asked 6ihf why they are doing this, but the only answer I got was that the heels needed to be thicker and that would look ugly. Now everyone knows that it is possible to manufacture high heels with 20cm+ heels that still look slender, sharp and beautiful!

So at this point I decided that if I want this to change, there must be more than one person who tells 6ihf about this annoying thing.

If you feel the same, send a mail to 6ihf, and tell them about it! Maybe they will see it will be positive for both them and us...

And secondly, vote!

Actually this is not really the case. The limit for a high heel is about 6" or 15cm. You get away with higher because you add a platform, as long as the platform increases by the same amount you can have the heel a high as you want. Try wearing a pair of 7" heels without a platform and watch how the heel flexes when you walk, this is putting stress on both the heel and the shank and eventually one will give. Trust me when I say that the heels are not "designed to flex" like some manufacturers will claim.

It would be interesting to find out how many of these extreme heels they actually sell in the smaller sizes, I'm prepared to bet that the huge majority are sold in 8[uk]+. In smaller sizes the flex is less of a problem in that the heel will be shorter and it would be like snapping a pencil, a long one is easier to snap than a short one. The main reason they are shown in catalogues and on the website is because, clearly, the shape of a much smaller shoe is much more erotic and aspirational.

Graduate footwear designer able to advise and assist on modification and shoe making projects.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually this is not really the case. The limit for a high heel is about 6" or 15cm. You get away with higher because you add a platform, as long as the platform increases by the same amount you can have the heel a high as you want. Try wearing a pair of 7" heels without a platform and watch how the heel flexes when you walk, this is putting stress on both the heel and the shank and eventually one will give. Trust me when I say that the heels are not "designed to flex" like some manufacturers will claim.

It would be interesting to find out how many of these extreme heels they actually sell in the smaller sizes, I'm prepared to bet that the huge majority are sold in 8[uk]+. In smaller sizes the flex is less of a problem in that the heel will be shorter and it would be like snapping a pencil, a long one is easier to snap than a short one. The main reason they are shown in catalogues and on the website is because, clearly, the shape of a much smaller shoe is much more erotic and aspirational.

Actually, this IS the case. I'm talking about general heel height, and this may include platforms too. Also, there are other manufacturers which produce large sized heels - just measured the height of the heels of my silver sandals, and they are over 7". Of course true 7" heels w/o platforms are only possible for larger sizes. Even 6ihf produces shoes with 7/8" heels. So the problem's not the heel stability. I just got a more understandable answer (see previous posts).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

it's just cost effective to have a single heel unit to fit to all shoe sizes rather than maintain a common angle to the mid soles.

can surely be done as we've seen with bespoke offerings but will push the price up

yep this is one thing for sure. But as I stated some posts ago, 6ihf told me the major problem is they cannot produce large lasts with high arches:

Lasts are created by machines. They are not handmade because volume accuracy is involved. Steep arches on large sizes cause the last to become stuck in the machine. If there is any risk of damaging the machine, the last manufacturer would refuse our request.

This is one problem for sure. If that's true and unavoidable, there's nothing we could do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you own 6ihf shoes? Due to the well known problem I can't speak from experience, but when I take a look at 6ihf designs, they seem to be wider and "better" shaped than other brands' heels.

Unfortunately not as price, lack of credit card and confusion about their China size system have held me back from ordering. Mostly the first and the latter though as I don't want to spend a lot of money on a potentially poorly fitting shoe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unfortunately not as price, lack of credit card and confusion about their China size system have held me back from ordering. Mostly the first and the latter though as I don't want to spend a lot of money on a potentially poorly fitting shoe.

Take a look at the "sizing" link at their homepage - there's an extensive table comparing all well known size systems + foot length.

While I prefer a more walkable heel height, I would of course be a lot happier if the angle you can se on smaller size shoes could be scaled up to the larger sizes:

http://www.highness.se/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/bianco_skor.jpg

Looking at your avatar, I can just say that's what I suspected :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, this IS the case. I'm talking about general heel height, and this may include platforms too. Also, there are other manufacturers which produce large sized heels - just measured the height of the heels of my silver sandals, and they are over 7". Of course true 7" heels w/o platforms are only possible for larger sizes. Even 6ihf produces shoes with 7/8" heels. So the problem's not the heel stability. I just got a more understandable answer (see previous posts).

So you're saying that the heels on your silver sandals don't flex when you walk? BTW, that answer about lasts getting stuck in the machine is ridiculous.

Graduate footwear designer able to advise and assist on modification and shoe making projects.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So you're saying that the heels on your silver sandals don't flex when you walk? BTW, that answer about lasts getting stuck in the machine is ridiculous.

Please make yourself aware that we are not talking about heel flexing:

Now everyone knows that it is possible to manufacture high heels with 20cm+ heels that still look slender, sharp and beautiful!

Actually this is not really the case. The limit for a high heel is about 6" or 15cm.

Actually, this IS the case. I'm talking about general heel height, and this may include platforms too.

Even 6ihf manufactures 18cm heels WITHOUT platform. And I guess, when they do it, these shoes will still be stable. And a design with 20cm heel and a varying platform height, which is just 1-2cm for largest sizes.

About the getting stucked lasts: I don't know about that topic, but it's interesting to hear this is/might be ridiculous.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Take a look at the "sizing" link at their homepage - there's an extensive table comparing all well known size systems + foot length.

I know. These days their selection option also lists US sizes in addition to China sizes. But it wasn't always like this. And as I've said before, my real problem is width, not length. I'm more of a US 12/13 in length but a 14 in width.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my size, a 5 or 6, all of my 6" heels are really more like 5 1/4" or 5 1/2". There's no way I could wear a real 6" heel with as small as my feet are. My boyfriend has some 6" heels that are really 6" in his size, he's a 10. So I think you'd have to scale the heel height to account for the size of your feet.

Yes, I do walk in these

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While most manufacturers scale heel height to size, 6 Inch Heels Forever does not. Maybe it has something to do with their name (duh) or maybe the use of an unusual heel block with a rather flat heel zone. You think!?

Shafted, the boots that is! View my gallery here http://www.hhplace.o...afteds-gallery/ or view my heeling thread here http://www.hhplace.org/topic/3850-new-pair-of-boots-starts-me-serious-street-heeling/ - Pm me if you want fashion advice or just need someone to talk to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please make yourself aware that we are not talking about heel flexing:

Look, please don't think I'm arguing with you, in fact I kind of agree with your point. All I was doing was putting forward a reason why many manufacturers choose not to make heels higher than 6". You haven't answered my question though... :)

Even 6ihf manufactures 18cm heels WITHOUT platform. And I guess, when they do it, these shoes will still be stable. And a design with 20cm heel and a varying platform height, which is just 1-2cm for largest sizes.

So what's the problem? You say you want them to make shoes with 18cm heels when they already do? I don't understand the point you're trying to raise here. Just order the 18cm shoes in the same colour and finish as the smaller size 6" (15cm) shoe and you'll have the heels you want, surely?

About the getting stucked lasts: I don't know about that topic, but it's interesting to hear this is/might be ridiculous.

This is because the lasts don't go anywhere near any machine. This is a firm that make shoes to order, they don't produce runs of 100,000+, they make them one pair at a time. What they do is form the toe and heel with thermoplastic in a machine, then insert the last with the insole attached, press down the waist (probably by hand), smooth down all the little folds and ridges and then press a sole on. That is in essence how a shoe is made.

At the end of the day, some firms scale their heels up and others don't. I don't see how a customer who might possible order 5 or 6 pairs is going to influence them into spending thousands of dollars or more on new lasts and heel tooling, let alone the new patterns that have to be cut.

Graduate footwear designer able to advise and assist on modification and shoe making projects.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My understanding the lasts can be reused on other stiles, but generally a new one is need to be made most of the time. So for every size and every stile, there are a lot of lasts. But the thing is that last are made by CNC machines so how can it be a cost issue unless they buy them form some one else? I had Burlesque Blue quote me a custom made to my foot one time, it would cost me some where under $1,000USD!! And with each new stile a new last would have to be made. Since it hard to find closed toe shoes that fit me with out modifying them, some day I will have a pair made and they better be better quality than designer shoes. :) Any way I have had a pair from 6INF and they were more like 6.3", and the arch was not as pronounced as seen with the smaller sizes, that was disappointing. However if they did add a sharper arch on the larger sizes, I would think a higher heel would not be needed, I had a hard enough time walking in the ones I had. It would just be more comfortable to wear.

Hello, :wave: my name is Hoverfly. I’m a high heel addict…. Weeeeeeeeeee!  👠1998 to 2022!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I chose "other".

I personally like all those designs, especially the ones with the ankle straps.

What do you consider a "large" size and a "small" size?

I can do 8.5 to 9 in women's, which I believe would be about average, if not then perhaps a bit larger than average.

What sizes were those in the pictures (if you know)?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Look, please don't think I'm arguing with you, in fact I kind of agree with your point. All I was doing was putting forward a reason why many manufacturers choose not to make heels higher than 6". You haven't answered my question though... :)

So what's the problem? You say you want them to make shoes with 18cm heels when they already do? I don't understand the point you're trying to raise here. Just order the 18cm shoes in the same colour and finish as the smaller size 6" (15cm) shoe and you'll have the heels you want, surely?

This is because the lasts don't go anywhere near any machine. This is a firm that make shoes to order, they don't produce runs of 100,000+, they make them one pair at a time. What they do is form the toe and heel with thermoplastic in a machine, then insert the last with the insole attached, press down the waist (probably by hand), smooth down all the little folds and ridges and then press a sole on. That is in essence how a shoe is made.

At the end of the day, some firms scale their heels up and others don't. I don't see how a customer who might possible order 5 or 6 pairs is going to influence them into spending thousands of dollars or more on new lasts and heel tooling, let alone the new patterns that have to be cut.

Of course we are not arguing. That would be more like YOU'RE JUST TELLIN SHIT YOU ***** :) lol

Now to answer your questions: The heels of the silver sandals are bending a bit (well for that they were only 40€!), but still this pair is the most comfortable 6-7" pair I have worn by now. Why? because they have a well-shaped arch!

Regarding your next question - what I'm looking for ist not (well not only :silly: ) the heel height but the arch shape! A high heel with a high arch is very comfortable and a lot easier to wear and to walk in. You're right, if my problem was only the heel height, I could just go and buy one of the 18/20cm designs.

Regarding the lasts - 6ihf told me that they use made by machines lasts as they need a lot of precision. And if I remember it rightly, somewhere at 6ihfs homepage there was a photo of their lasts storage. It was really big.

Jep if I was the only one asking for it, there wouldn't be any chance. This is why I decided to take a look at what others are thinking about this...

Any way I have had a pair from 6INF and they were more like 6.3", and the arch was not as pronounced as seen with the smaller sizes, that was disappointing. However if they did add a sharper arch on the larger sizes, I would think a higher heel would not be needed, I had a hard enough time walking in the ones I had. It would just be more comfortable to wear.

Thats exactly my problem. Personally I'm looking for my dream design, which has extreme height and a curvy, high arch, not a diagonal straight arch...

And looking at 6ihf designs, there are a lot styles that fit my idea of a dream design, but only in small sizes! That's very disappointing, especially as 6ihf seems to be the only manufacturer which produces heels with truly high arches.

I chose "other".

I personally like all those designs, especially the ones with the ankle straps.

What do you consider a "large" size and a "small" size?

I can do 8.5 to 9 in women's, which I believe would be about average, if not then perhaps a bit larger than average.

What sizes were those in the pictures (if you know)?

I'm sorry I don't know. It's just some kind of generic comparision;

I think its about US7 vs. US11 or 12.

Yep those ankle straps are sweet. But 6ihf allows you to add ankle straps to almost every design. However this is one currently unimportant thing, the interesting part is comparing the arch shapes and heel silhouettes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know about the rest of you but when I want a 6 inch heel, I want a 6 inch heel, not a heel that's scaled to shoe size. My hats off to 6ihf to using their existing system when many other manufacturers are scaling the heel height to te size.

I agree. A 6 inch heel should be just that. After that they become impossible to walk in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My understanding the lasts can be reused on other stiles, but generally a new one is need to be made most of the time. So for every size and every stile, there are a lot of lasts. But the thing is that last are made by CNC machines so how can it be a cost issue unless they buy them form some one else?

Most, if not, all shoe makers buy their lasts from a last manufacturer. These are indeed made on a CNC machine which is actually a special kind of lathe. They can knock out an unlimited quantity of them and, thanks to the fact that sizing is on a linear scale, they can be sized up to any size they want on the machine. To make "the other foot", all they do is add a gear to it and it will produce a mirror image of the original. Some machines will automatically make them in pairs.

The cost of a mass produced last will vary with quantity from about £35 to £90 each because the cost of setting up the machine has to be covered.

It is not easy to make a new shape last though. There is many man-hours of design work going into a last of a new shape and this has to be covered as well. It can cost at least £5000 to develop a new last with the designer supplying a 3D model, without a model it will cost 1000s more depending on who you ask to do the modelling for you and how accurate your drawings are. With a bespoke last to the same shape as an existing one, all they do is make a bigger last and then file it down by hand to the shape they want, the pitch and general shape being retained.

Yes, a last will be reused many, many times and don't actually wear out. You can go to some factories that are using lasts that predate WWII and those making classic styles will have lasts that are even older. In most factories, they will design new styles based on the last shapes that they already have. Any designer who consistently comes up with new shapes could well find themselves looking for a new job fairly quickly whereas one who is very good at designing around existing lasts will stay for years.

Graduate footwear designer able to advise and assist on modification and shoe making projects.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can certainly appreciate the feelings of the OP, and actually all the posters. It basically comes down to geometry, and marketing: for a given change in shoe size (length), what do you want to do about the height? - Some might argue for a constant angle. In this case, smaller sizes have shorter heels, larger sizes have higher heels. - Others might argure for a constant height. In this case, the angle of the foot changes. My guess is that constant angle might be preferred. If you put a size 6 shoe next to a size 10 shoe, both with the same angle, they'll probably look very similar. The sz 10 is obviously bigger, looking like it was scaled up, but the overall proportions will basically be the same. If you go this route, then you'll have height variations in the heel. I never thought about it before, but one reasons many shoes have limited shoe sizes (some as limited as sz 6-10) could be that within a narrow size range, there's not a lot of variation in the heel height. I'm too lazy to pull out my geometry formulas, but I'd guess that for a 4" heel, if you limit that to sizes 6-10, it's probably about +/- 0.5" inches for heel height variation (sz 6, maybe 3.5"; size 10, maybe 4.5"). [Actually that 1/2" looks large, now I'm thinking it's probably less.] I'm sure for most customers, that variation is acceptable. Now, instead of sz 6-10, imagine the size range was 5-12. That variation now is going to be much greater. Suddenly the 4" heel is feeling more like a 3.x" heel at the smallest size, and going towards 5" at the large size. That's perhaps more variation than the manufacturer wants. They can eliminate that of course by not doing simple scaling. Now, instead of having one design for all sizes, they might need need have one for say sz 5-9, and another one for 9.5-12. Now you have the extra expense, plus you have shoes that no longer look identical. I'm not sure there's (literally) a 'one size fits all' answer to this issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using High Heel Place, you agree to our Terms of Use.