zathrus69 Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Hi there! I've been lurking around on this site for a while now and now is the time to say hello. I've been into heels for as long as I can remember (and I turned 40 this year, so that is a very long time ). Up till three years ago things were pretty great. I had a fantastic collection of heels and my wife was happy to, now and again, put on a pair of "bedroom" shoes I bought her (7" platforms - very sexy). It had taken me some 12 years to pluck up the courage to admit to her that I was turned on by women wearing heels and I was pleased that she responded positively and asked me to go buy her a pair. But (and it's a big one) I hadn't actually admitted to her my enjoyment of wearing heels myself. Then we moved house. Six months later I still hadn't gotten around to finding somewhere to hide my collection and, yep you can pretty much guess what happened, she was hunting around in the garage for something and she opened up "Pandora's Box". It pretty much destroyed her. I admitted that I was a TV and that I only wore the shoes (and skirts, sussies, etc) when she was out of town but she couldn't understand where I was coming from. Anyway, our marriage survived (just) and three years down the line we are still together and very much in love. However, she no longer wants to wear her bedroom shoes as she associates them with me wearing high heels, which is a massive turn-off for her. She sort of accepts why I wore heels but it's not something she wants to be involved in - which is fair enough. It's just a shame it's made her feel different about wearing heels in the bedroom. On the other hand she does wear heels out and about (as and when appropriate) as she likes to be fashionable (and heels are very much in fashion in the UK at the moment) and she always makes sure I am with her to help her choose (which is nice!). My regrets are many-fold (I could write a book on the subject) but the biggest one is that I should have been honest with her from the start. In 30 seconds I destroyed 12 years of trust and I can never put that right. I think I've probably bored you lot to death now so I'll shut up. I'm glad I've found some people who share the same interest as I do and I'll try and be a regular poster (I've got a few questions but I'll save those for another time). Thank you for your time. Zathrus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julietta Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Zathrus Hi, Have tried to respond to this story all afternoon so will sleep on it and respond a bit more fully tomorrow So here's a hello and welcome from me for now and I look forward to reading more about you, questions and all. Glad you took the virtual leap everyone is really nice on here. Julie x Let calm be widespread May the sea glisten like greenstone And the shimmer of summer Dance across your pathway "Communication is a two way thing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenB Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 This is very familiar. My wife does not like my heel wearing and doesn't like them herself. I'm talking the 2 1/2" variety. Really high are out of the question. She's a US 8 1/2 W (wide). Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus, I'm from the Earth.Now wearing HH Penny Loafers full time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurieheels Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 I would love to be able to plot and ponder out a wonderful solution to this. But there is another issue here, and sometimes I think the men who post ignore it. Some women may start off with the idea that your wearing anything considered feminine makes you want to be female. And no matter how much you assure that girlfriend or wife about it, the fear never goes away. Let's face it, we live in a society where the genders are really stereotyped, categorized, and a lot of effort from the members here is taking place to change that. I guess women would think that their men are going to want to be women, that these men will want to be treated like women at least part of the time. And this comes to the somewhat selfish nature of women. We like to be pampered, we like to be women, and we can like our men to be, well, very manly. There was a time I would have thought this same way! Of course, I have seen here that the subject is very different, but most women have not. I don't think I could ever have dated a guy who was into any for of crossdressing, but that is not to say that my understanding is not there. I think that if you would like to make things better in the relationship, you'll have to focus on what the dressing does for, well, your mind, and for your penis. Let's face it, if there is a sexual component, then let's talk about it. Women everywhere would fear their husbands turning into someone else, and that is as much a problem as the matter of not being trusted. It is true that if some women were told about this before the wedding, there would be no wedding. Why? WOmen, especially ultra fems, look for very masculine men. Anything that threatens that little illusion makes a relationship difficult. Of course, men who may have a fetish or interest in these feminine things are drawn to women who are very feminine in their means of dress and mannerisms. There is a hope that by having such a woman, the desire to wear certain things may go away. Of course, the desire is never going to go away, but human beings always try to live for others in some small way. The answer is to talk about it, discuss what it actually means, what it does for you, and show your wife there is no threat to her femininity, and no threat of her losing the "man" she married. Three years after the discovery and you're surviving well enough, that's good. But through discussion, you may be able to make it better. We all need to be happy, we all need those things in our lives that make it feel just the way we'd like it. For me, it's a big kitchen and dreams of a giant jet tub, a nice Monday to Friday job, and a bigger closet for shoes. These things we like may not change who we are, but not everyone understands that. So go out there and change the world, or at least, change a person here or there, starting with your spouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefox Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Be honest. That's the best advice of all from "guest". As for gender steroetypes and the way some women think, Laurie is right too. But these days women expect to have the right to wear the trousers. Not only metaphorically but literally as well. Have their cake and eat it you might say, and I'm personally a champion of that right. Hence it's only fair men should have the right to extend what might be considered their "traditional" roles. Even what is fair will never alter the minds of some, but it's a pretty powerful argument for the majority to ponder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julietta Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Laurie sorry I have to disagree with men who wear feminine clothing as being less manly. Yam certainly isn't less manly because he likes to wear feminine things from time to time. I haven't had so much fun. The difference that he has, opposed to what I've had before, is a much better understanding and empathy with women but he is far more manly than either my ex husband or ex partner ever were. I have never felt so loved, protected and taken care of. My best friend was the same if you knew what he did for a living you would be shocked, and you need to be very manly to be in his profession I can tell you, but again he was sensitive to us women and well yes he preferred the more colourful things that we wear and to be Frank (bad pun) if I were a man so would I. Anyway both of them, and especially Yam, have made me feel more feminine than I could have ever possibly imagined and so as far as I'm concerned you can keep your cavemen types I haven't got the energy to keep boosting up their fragile egos at the cost of my sanity. Oops I'm on on my soap box and I digress... The issue here is one of trust. This woman has discovered that after 12 years of thinking she knew her husband she quite clearly didn't and she must be asking herself why he didn't trust her enough to tell her in the first place and once trust is broken it can take an awful long time to rebuild. Luckily in this case there is love in the marriage for it to have continued another 3 years. The fact that she won't wear shoes for fun times anymore is that she obviously feels that Za would rather be wearing them and so it isn't just about her anymore. She probably felt special and now feels that that has been taken away as, in her mind, his motives and desires were that he wished he were wearing them, so I can kind of understand that as we all like to feel special. I didn't respond earlier as I couldn't get away from this truth and I've come on the board tonight to see that people have written my thoughts anyway. I didn't want to put you off and make you leave us quite yet Za as I think this board is a good place and can really help you to feel good about yourself. If anything there is a moral to this, and that is, be honest to your prospective partners and if they don't accept you for who you are then they really aren't worth it. Julie xx Let calm be widespread May the sea glisten like greenstone And the shimmer of summer Dance across your pathway "Communication is a two way thing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Zathrus; The first thing that comes to my mind is the shock that your wife experienced discovering your secret unexpectedly. Some people can recover quickly and others take more time. Give her some time to think about it. She will try to analyze what her senses tell her. She may rely on preconceived ideas. Or she may be totally in the dark dealing with the unknown. After a little time has passed, ask her if the both of you can sit down and talk about it. Tell her you want to make sure she understands the facts. Correct any misconceptions. Answer her questions. Is this just role-playing to spice up your lives ? Do you have any feelings about becoming a female ? How often do you want to do this ? and so on and so on. Maybe part of her problem is the fact that you kept this secret from her. She may think that if you kept one secret, then you might have others. While there is no guarantee she will agree to all of your requests, then hopefully your experience will serve as an example to others. Allow me to relate my situation. I was lucky to seek out a female partner who shared my fetishes. As a result, she has known from the time we met. But here comes the paradox. Although I love to wear high heels, I can't do it in her presence. I tried it and I just felt odd. Wearing high heels makes me feel submissive. But as a male, I am naturally a dominant type. And my lady prefers it that way. So I only wear the heels when she is at work. click .... click .... click .... The sensual sound of stiletto heels on a hard surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurieheels Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Julie, this confuses me... "you can keep your cavemen types I haven't got the energy to keep boosting up their fragile egos at the cost of my sanity." Was this directed at me? I am not taking the position that things society deems feminine make a man less manly. The years of visiting this site have made me aware of how things work. But if you wish to disagree with me, then that is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julietta Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 No Laurie I wasn't aiming it at you really I was referring to my ex bullish husband and my absusive and violent ex partner actually who were classified as manly to the extent that they think that women are second class citizens and that we were put on this planet to boost them up. I'm not exagerating as they were both quite vocal about where a woman's place should be. Laurie I can only go by my personal experience with these things and I would rather have a thousand Yam's than one of what I've left behind. I'm not getting at you I've just got a slightly different point of view due to the bad luck I've had in the past and that is simply that. Love always Julie x Let calm be widespread May the sea glisten like greenstone And the shimmer of summer Dance across your pathway "Communication is a two way thing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurieheels Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 I am glad you have found the right guy, I know they are not easy to find. And I am glad the "you" in your statement was not a directed one, but the collective one, aimed at society. Besides, Chris is only a caveman when he is trying to wake up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobHH Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Been through various parts of that - hiding for a long time, but then finally confessing to a very understanding and accepting wife. She said, "Oh, is that all? Go ahead." I remember when Jenny said, on the original board, "It's only shooz." And one of the name designers (can't remember now) said "Have fun, it's only clothes." In other words, not to be taken as an indication of someone's worth, which is done way too much. Women are supposed to be sex objects in much of our society, protestations not withstanding. Why else sexy clothing, makeup, nail polish, sexy shoes, etc., etc. They can wear anything including men's clothes, combat outfits, etc., and still be cute. But let a man try to wear a feminine clothing article or shoes or nail polish or make-up, and WATCH OUT! Women are used to uncovered arms, legs, and feet. Watched a girl on Monday who was wearing kitten heeled slides, barefoot, slip them off and move her bare feet around while sitting at a counter. Saw a beautiful girl today slip off her shoes in the studio and walk around barefoot, then put on some flip-flops for a while. Pretty feet, and she knows she is attractive and can do that without someone making critical comments. Women can do pretty much what they want, at least in our Western countries, but let a man step out of line and boom! Where's the freedom or fun in that? Where's the tolerance? And men think they are in control? HAH. Only when it comes to raw power, killing, and war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julietta Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Laurie wrote: Besides, Chris is only a caveman when he is trying to wake up. :rofl: Aren't they all Let calm be widespread May the sea glisten like greenstone And the shimmer of summer Dance across your pathway "Communication is a two way thing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Laurie wrote: :rofl: Aren't they all Hey! Ok, it's true :rofl: I wish I was a size 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zathrus69 Posted July 23, 2003 Author Share Posted July 23, 2003 I just want to say thanks to everyone for their kind words. I didn't realise my post would create such an interesting discussion on the male/female dichotomy (my word for the day!) and I agree with all the various comments. Julietta is right in saying that my wife used to feel special whilst wearing her bedroom shoes and now she thinks "well, he'd rather be wearing them", which puts her off big time. She is not correct in this assumption and we have talked at length about this but I can't change the fundamental truth that she finds the thought of me wearing heels repulsive. I think Guest summarised it best - be honest, with both yourself and any future partner. Because I broke her trust she has pondered such unthinkables as "he wants to be a woman", "he must be gay" and "he'll want to dress as a woman in front of me". Fortunately none of these fears were justified and she understands this now. Thanks again for your kind words everyone - I feel truly welcome Zathrus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arctic Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 I've talked about this before so the veterans better skip this post. For my wife there are two reasons that she doesn't want me to wear anything out of the mainstream. Read the second paragraph, because that is actually where the message is : 1. a man has to be a "pure" male. He can be childish, poor, nerdish, have bad style, poor hygiene, whatever (which she is all ok with, although she wouldn't want to be with one that is too much of those things mentioned above). She sees those as male "deficiencies" and since nobody is perfect, this is acceptable. But she doesn't want that his masculinity is diluted with even the slightest "strictly female" property. She says that this is a major turn-off for her. Let me explain a bit: I wear only boots (ankle to knee high), with only a block, blade or western heel between 6 and 10 cm, so nothing else (like stilettos, skirts, whatever). I feel happy in my skin and have no other desires than those. I don't want to be a woman, nor look like one, nor feel like one, I just like the boots - which happen to be made for women. When I came home with a pair of FLAT black leather knee high boots, she freaked out because they had a zip at the inside. She said that boots that zip up tightly around the leg are for women, irrespective of the design or heel height. Zipped up knee-high leather boots are made to look sexy in a female kind of way. She forced me to throw them away instantly and didn't speak to me for a week. Similar story for some other pairs with small heels etc. Some of the other pairs went into the basement and she knows about them being there. 2. she doesn't want any pity from other people. She thinks that one of the worst things that could happen in life is that I would be seen in the city by her parents or friends while wearing what she calls "woman's shoes" and as a result of that would discuss about that behind her back and feel sorry for her since she has that kind of freaky husband. She would be deadly embarassed if she would figure out at some point that her friend has seen me or known about my things and then start to talk about it to her. She has asked me, almost begged me repeatedly, not to wear 5 cm or higher heeled shoes in public. I have reluctantly agreed, even though it eats me from inside out. So I violate the agreement very regularly because although I don't know why, I really want to wear those bloody boots. I'm very careful though, not to run into her friends or family. Bottom line: she doesn't want to get pity from "other people" and she doesn't understand why it is so hard to suppress that weird desire. As long as she doesn have to talk about it or look at those boots she's happy. It is absolutely not about me not wanting to play it open, but she doesn't let me to. So what I wanted to say with this long post is that we should not make everyone in the closet to believe that it is just them that need to make the move - there may be other hurdles ahead. If I would have brought this up right after we met, I would have been dumped sante pede. (but I didn't know about this yet so that was not an option ). In effect it means that if I would have known about it, the choice would have been: I change or the becoming wife goes. We've been together now for many years and I can honestly say that she's an excellent wife and I love her extremely much, and since good partners are hard to find, I have made the choice to live with a life-long frustration. So, my recommendation is to be open if your girlfriend lets you to. If she cannot accept it, only you can make the trade-off. What's all the fuss about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamyam Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Well, I have some experiences along these lines. I actually told my ex-wife about me, my shoes, and my TV desires. I didn't get caught. However, we were married at the time. Initially she went along with it... then our marriage went thru a slightly rocky period, that was all thrown back at me, and she left. I wish I'd been more honest, but I was scared of what might happen. And so, the worst happened. I tried to talk about it, but she'd have none of it. Instead, she told her family, threatened to tell my family, and basically used it in an effort to ruin my life. That hurt. Did it hurt more than I hurt her? No idea, but I do know that while it was somethng we shared, things were okay, but then it became a weapon, and I wish I'd never gone there. So that relationship ended, and after that I decided to be entirely honest. That kind of worked too, and as long-term readers of the board will know, I shared this with someone who briefly posted here. That didn't work out either, but I'd made a start on sharing what I felt inside. And then I found someone truly wonderful! She and I have discussed everything, shared everything, and found true joy in this big old world. I'm strong enough to tell her everything, and she knows (and has said on here) that it's how you feel about the person that's important. How I feel about her gives me the strength and the confidence to share my feelings, my desires, my dreams, and to share hers, too. We've talked it out, and we continue talking. ... and I would rather have a thousand Yam's than one of what I've left behind... Why, thank you, my darling! I'd never call myself a 'he-man' type, but I am in touch with my feelings, and I'm in touch with making Julietta feel as special as she is. I think I know what 'manly' behaviour is supposed to be, but all I know is how to be myself. I look after the children, I make cakes for birthdays, I work on computers, sometimes I take cars to bits, I can't park for toffee, and I have no sense of colour but I can talk for England. All of these things are me. Are some 'manly' and some 'girly'? Am I manly when I take the car to bits, even if I have a skirt and heels on? Or am I manly when I'm reading the kids a story, because I'm wearing trainers and jeans? All I know is that this is me, and I'm lucky enough to have someone who can appreciate me for what I am and who I am. There was a point in here somewhere... Ah, here it is. I knew I'd put it down somewhere. When I told my ex-wife about my clothing urges, she was shocked for quite a long time. But she came round, and I think that if we hadn't had the other problems we had, she and I might have come thru that and be happy together now. But our relationship didn't survive that. And I'm happy that it didn't, as I have now found the love of my life! All I can say is that she may come around, and may accept the 'new you'. She may embrace the new situation, and you may find yourselves swapping underwear and dress tips. Or she may grudgingly accept that this is something that happens but that she wants no part of. Or she may leave. Whatever happens, I think that being honest is better than living a lie. If your relationship doesn't make it, and believe me, I'll be sad for you if it doesn't, there may well be someone out there who can accept all of you for who you are. If your relationship does make it thru this, and my fingers are crossed for you, then you'll be better for it. The lie is gone, you can be who you are with confidence, and she'll benefit from a happier you. I think the worst thing in the world is the guilt from a secret. It eats away at you, it corrodes your relationships, and it taints everything it touches. I wish you all the best, from someone who's been there. Obsessed is such a strong word. I prefer to think of myself as "differently enthusiastic" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefox Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Another reason, as you say YY, for being honest when circumstances demand it and I think they generally do in real life relationships. I didn't know you had TV tendencies. It seems many heel wearing guys do, and I feel different and maybe abnormal in that respect, as I don't personally subscribe to that side. I'm sure Laurie and Julie are both right in their views how various women think, but in general how women think is not a problem because they have a sensible attitude in these matters regardless of their views. I'm in a reasonably unique position of having worn heels in public as a guy for a long time. 90% of the favourable reaction is from women, and 90% of any unfavourable reaction is from men. That is an honest reflection of the figures. Draw your own conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arctic Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Hi FF, it appears that we are indeed a quite rare breed indeed. Of most guys who are interested in (wearing) high heels, the vast majority (99%?) does so in direct connection with intercourse. I think most of those are not participating on boards like these. The relatively small number of males who wear heels out of the bedroom (the members of this board, broadly speaking), appears to be consisting of two distinct groups: the ones that are also interested in female attire and those who just want to wear heels. Could it be so that the proportion is 95% - 5%? If we guess that there are 3 billion men in the world, at least 1 billion must be in the possibility to buy heels for themselves. If we assume that 2% of them are interested in wearing high heels, we have: 1E09 * 2% * 1% * 5% = 10000 That's quite a small number, if you think about it. In a way, I like to be the way I am: it makes me unique. Or almost B What's all the fuss about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julietta Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 I think what a lot of it boils down to is that some of us like to conform to what is supposed to be (and I hate this word but...) the "norm" she doesn't want to get pity from "other people" and she doesn't understand why it is so hard to suppress that weird desire. and some of us like to be different, and express ourselves uniquely I belong to the latter and appreciate people who also want to be different as, for me personally, it makes life more colourful and more interesting. I hate categorising people into conventional and unconventional but unfortunately that is how life is. I'm an idealist and in my world people would be allowed to be who ever they wanted so long as there was harmony and all would be equal and all would be fed... but that's another subject (better quit now before I go off on one again ) Let calm be widespread May the sea glisten like greenstone And the shimmer of summer Dance across your pathway "Communication is a two way thing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azraelle Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Bottom line: she doesn't want to get pity from "other people" and she doesn't understand why it is so hard to suppress that weird desire. Most women will never understand, unless they've ever been addicted (and "recovered") to something like heroin or crack cocaine, because having a penis (and a Y chromosome), and the sexual urges that result therefrom, are every bit as difficult to control or "suppress" as the urge to give in to the addiction. No, I'm not an addict (in the conventional sense), but have known a few. If you consider the endorphins that flood the system during sexual fantasizing or roleplaying as drugs (and their chemical structures do resemble opiates), then I am most definitely an addict, and I suspect several others on this board are as well. Most women think, and more to the point feel like Laurie describes. I suspect most wouldn't be able to put into words exactly what they feel, other than that it is fundamentally WRONG for a man, especially their man, to be wearing women's clothes of any kind. It's visceral, lower brain stem, probably illogical, could be proven without merit in any court of law, but it still will be there! It is as set-in-stone as a person's faith or religion, and every bit as easy to change--e.g. only the person that has it can change it, and only when she finds a motive to do so, if indeed she ever does. I used to believe that love transcended all, and indeed, if a woman ever does find a motive, it will be love (not fear). Yeah, you messed with her trust, but the distrust goes to the visceral core--it's not the clothes, it's "can she trust her intuitions anymore [about you and who you reallyare, or what]? ". "All that you can decide, is what to do with the time that is given you."--Gandalf, "Life is not tried, it is merely survived -If you're standing outside the fire."--Garth Brooks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julietta Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Araelle you are right it's a learned thing as I only learn what I want and not what I'm told as I like to judge for myself and am not interested in other people opinions, especially negative ones. It is also just a trust thing but all relationships are based on trust and when that is broken it brings with it mountains of negativity and insecurity... I wish people would just open their minds a little and let a little awe and colour into their otherwise closed and colourless lives so that they can just see for one minute how rewarding their lives could really be Let calm be widespread May the sea glisten like greenstone And the shimmer of summer Dance across your pathway "Communication is a two way thing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Poor Zathrus, I wonder if he was expecting this to be a simple clear cut issue. And here we all are using personal experiences and psychological and medical terminology proving to him just how complicated this issue actually is. That's because there are so many reasons why people react a certain way. And for the people who change their attitudes over time, that only makes things more complicated. click .... click .... click .... The sensual sound of stiletto heels on a hard surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arctic Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Most women will never understand, unless they've ever been addicted (and "recovered") to something like heroin or crack cocaine, because having a penis (and a Y chromosome), and the sexual urges that result therefrom, are every bit as difficult to control or "suppress" as the urge to give in to the addiction. No, I'm not an addict (in the conventional sense), but have known a few. If you consider the endorphins that flood the system during sexual fantasizing or roleplaying as drugs (and their chemical structures do resemble opiates), then I am most definitely an addict, and I suspect several others on this board are as well. You make an interesting point here and I really think that this is a viable theory, but for those who don't have the sexual urge, it still must be different. I pick my boots because I really like how they look: how the leather shines, the shape of the toe or heel etc. So on a particular day I may prefer one pair over another. Pretty much the same thing as with cars: we have a Volvo V70 from 2000 and the 1991 Ford in the picture below. Although most people think in this country that the Ford is the ugliest car ever made, I really like it for various reasons, one of them being that it has a high torgue, low RPM engine, and I may be in cruising mood that day. So even though it is old, ugly, less powerful, has lousy airco and is probably worth just a few cents, I really want to take THAT car on a specific day. I can understand why people think that it is not very logical that I prefer the old car over the new one, even though it is clearly inferior, and I can more or less understand why most guys don't want to wear high heeled boots. But I hope that society some day will react the same way to me wearing high heel boots as they react to me driving a 1991 Grampa style Ford: "You want to drive that thing? Fine, go ahead! Better order road service!" "You want to walk on those? Fine, go ahead! But don't complain if you twist your ankle!" Most women think, and more to the point feel like Laurie describes. I suspect most wouldn't be able to put into words exactly what they feel, other than that it is fundamentally WRONG for a man, especially their man, to be wearing women's clothes of any kind. It's visceral, lower brain stem, probably illogical, could be proven without merit in any court of law, but it still will be there! It is as set-in-stone as a person's faith or religion, and every bit as easy to change--e.g. only the person that has it can change it, and only when she finds a motive to do so, if indeed she ever does. This is very interesting. I really have to remember this as an argument. Although my wife has said that all her friends think about this in the same way, I should try to get that checked some day one way or another. In that way it is somewhat compareable to religious beliefs..! One convinces the other that they are right! What's all the fuss about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba136 Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Bert wrote: And for the people who change their attitudes over time, that only makes things more complicated. People do change their attitudes over time. I told my wife about my heels shortly after we began dating. Initially, she was confused about my heels and her feelings for me. After a short period of not seeing each other, we got together and talked through the issue. While she really didn't like the idea, she accepted the fact and we were married almost 28 years ago. There were two conditions, however. One was that I would never wear heels around her and the other was that I wouldn't wear them around our children. Although I kept my heels concealed in a "safe place" she knew where I kept them. One day, 3 children and 10 years of marriage later, she appeared in my office carrying a pair of my heels. She commented that while she usually didn't like the shoes I bought, she liked that pair. She sat down on the couch and tried them on. That was the turning point in her complete acceptance. So, depending upon the person and situation, people can change their attitudes. I sincerely believe that had I not told her about my heels shortly after we met, and she learned about them after we were married, our relationship would be quite different than the one we enjoy today. Being mentally comfortable in your own mind is the key to wearing heels in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arctic Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Although I kept my heels concealed in a "safe place" she knew where I kept them. One day, 3 children and 10 years of marriage later, she appeared in my office carrying a pair of my heels. She commented that while she usually didn't like the shoes I bought, she liked that pair. She sat down on the couch and tried them on. That was the turning point in her complete acceptance. Wow... that was almost worth the 10 year wait. Although my wife knows where I keep my boots, I'm pretty sure she doesn't check them. In a way I wished she did... Your story indicates that one never should give up hoping for acceptance. What's all the fuss about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamyam Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Another reason, as you say YY, for being honest when circumstances demand it and I think they generally do in real life relationships. Well, I think honesty is always important! But a relationship with a life partner needs to be founded on honesty, amongst other things. I didn't know you had TV tendencies. It seems many heel wearing guys do, and I feel different and maybe abnormal in that respect, as I don't personally subscribe to that side. I can't believe the great Firefox feels abnormal ! I had them a while ago. It was part of struggling with identity issues, which I've now worked thru, and I'm cool with who I am. To be honest, I was always a really crap TV, as I'd always go out shopping for skirts and come back with shoes and boots! These days, I'm out there living it large in my heels, but that's it. I have some knee-highs and thin socks for wearing heels, but that's about it. I experiment sometimes, but if I never wore a skirt again it'd be no loss. In fact, a big turning point for me was talking things over with a friend of mine, and I realised that I'd be happiest if I could wear heels regularly, but not anything else. And now I do! I'm sure Laurie and Julie are both right in their views how various women think, but in general how women think is not a problem because they have a sensible attitude in these matters regardless of their views. I'm in a reasonably unique position of having worn heels in public as a guy for a long time. 90% of the favourable reaction is from women, and 90% of any unfavourable reaction is from men. That is an honest reflection of the figures. Draw your own conclusions. Well, Laurie and Julietta are women, so I guess they'd have a head start on how women think In my opinion, women are more sensible because they don't have 'macho' getting in the way of sense. I've never had a really unfavourable reaction, and I don't really expect one, but I still feel more comfortable buying shoes from female assistants. Obsessed is such a strong word. I prefer to think of myself as "differently enthusiastic" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveheel Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 I told my wife a few years ago, after hiding shoes around the house for several years. Man, do I feel much better now ! My wife didn't make a big deal about the shoes, though when we had some other marital problems she occasionally mentioned that "SHe doesn't know who I had become" i always had he feeling she referred in part to the shoes. Our marriage is back on track for the last year and the honesty has paid more than off. We are both close for knowing some of each other's feelings and desires. While she is not a HH wearer and does not share my passion for heels, she thinks now of my hoby as interesting, and is truly happy that she knows about what keeps my mind spinning. She thinks it is funny that I can so well remember the shoes that everyone wears, even after having only met them for a few minutes. So, honesty can bring you closer. We all have our desires and interests that we may not be comfortable with sharing. Your spouse may not be a HH wearer, but that doesn't mean there are no other feelings and passions he/she has difficulty telling you about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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